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Thread: 4.3 dyno 300hp

  1. #31
    Let's Go Pens! S/T Lover's Avatar
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    It was me that posted about being above 100% volumetric efficiency.. I was talking about naturally aspirated, not with any kind of forced induction.

    Ti28 - You keep arguing and flipping out about the VE of this motor.. But you have yet to explain how its there, or what it takes to get it that high.. Both SlowRide and BoostedTy have gone into pretty indepth descriptions on how VE is influenced by the work and parts on an engine, while you just expect us to believe you on the VE b/c you say so. I'm personally not busting your balls just to be a jerk, I want to know how the hell you can have a engine at 120% VE naturally aspirated..


    And yes, we know what inertia supercharging is, we read it in SlowRide's post.. And in all reality, if you knwo what the word "inertia" means and you know what the word "supercharging" means, then you can usually figure it out.


    Dont get upset, just explain the reasoning behind how you got your VE number. Because there are some very knowledgeable members of the board that are saying that being that high above 100% VE on a N/A motor, especially one with your specs, is going to be very difficult if not damn near impossible..


    And your engine isn't running 7's in the 1/4, so maybe thats why we don't believe the whole 120% thing..

    In all sincerity, please enlighten me on the VE and inertia supercharging.. I'd be glad to learn something if you would take the time to sit down and explain it so that we can ALL learn something.
    LT1/4L60E/Shaved handles, emblems, antenna/5-4 Drop/16" Xtreme Wheels.


    In 1095, Pope Urban II commanded the beginning of the most heinous period ever documented: The Crusades. While killing over 100,000 Turks in 1098, the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.

  2. #32
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    Originally posted by Slow Ride
    the efficiency of thengine is actually very low.

    Volumetric efficiency is different. Say you have a 350 and its VE is 90% then only 315 cubic inches of air/fuel will enter the engine in a complete cycle. Supercharging forces more air into teh engine than would be possible by NA thus the VE will be above 100%. Inertial supercharging is a hard thing to get ahold of. The intake tract has to be tuned like a correctly built header. The problem is that the intake is only inertial supercharging at specific RPMs and actually pulling air/fuel out at others.

    I will explain further if anyone is interested.

    I am interested.. If you'd like to explain more on the site, please do, if not, im me on aim and tell me.. I'm interested in learning about this.
    LT1/4L60E/Shaved handles, emblems, antenna/5-4 Drop/16" Xtreme Wheels.


    In 1095, Pope Urban II commanded the beginning of the most heinous period ever documented: The Crusades. While killing over 100,000 Turks in 1098, the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.

  3. #33
    Slow Ride
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    I have a few questions also. Like the carb issue.

    How is your drivability with a carb that is a little over 200cfm too big going on the 120%VE and 262 CID?

    What headers are you running? What are the primary lengths and diameters? What are the collector diameter and length?

    Did you employ coatings in the build?

    What are the runner lengths and volumes of the intake tracts average? How much did you mill from the center divider in the plenum?

    Why the dual pattern cam grind? If the heads were ported for 90% intake/exhaust flow ratio.

    I have more. I'll think of them over time.

  4. #34
    Registered User Catching Second's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ti28
    i am sorry this motor as it stands is not 120% it will be when done.......edit:i was talking as if motor is finished and as it stands it not totaly complete to my specs
    Then tell us that next time. What you did was called bullshitting the truth. Your words "... welp nevermind that idea, you've changed what you originally posted to make yourself not seem like you are just learning about this stuff and are questioning those who have known the same things for years.

    Go ahead, say 'fuck you' to me again. Call me an assholefor all I care. Sticks and stones.

    And that's a funny question... have you all ever built high performance engines..... no..... me? nope...... never...... neither has Slow Ride.... or any of us on here.

    You are NOT the only person on here who does engines. You may have the knowledge, but you lack the experience. Now go put your nose back in a book and find something else to rebuddle with.
    "A true hotrodder wouldn't be content untill he had created a car so violent, so hairy, so totally sick that the very act of dropping the hammer would result in instant death. Anything less results in the need to go faster." - Tony DeFeo

  5. #35
    Registered User BoostedTy's Avatar
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    Volumetric efficiency (VE) is used to describe the amount of fuel/air in the cylinder in relation to regular atmospheric air. If the cylinder is filled with fuel/air at atmospheric pressure, then the engine is said to have 100% volumetric efficiency. On the other hand, super chargers and turbo chargers increase the pressure entering the cylinder, giving the engine a volumetric efficiency greater than 100%. However, if the cylinder is pulling in a vacuum, then the engine has less than 100% volumetric efficiency. Normally aspirated engines typically run anywhere between 80% and 100% VE. So now, when you read that a certain manifold and cam combination tested out to have a 95% VE, you will know that the higher the number, the more power the engine can produce.
    From Here
    Damn.

  6. #36
    Registered User BoostedTy's Avatar
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    Or
    The volumetric efficiency of a 4-stroke engine is the relationship between the quantity of intake air and the piston displacement. In other words, volumetric efficiency is the ratio between the charge that actually enters the cylinder and the amount that could enter under ideal conditions. Piston displacement is used since it is difficult to measure the amount of charge that would enter the cylinder under ideal conditions. An engine would have 100% volumetric efficiency if, at atmospheric pressure and normal temperature, an amount of air exactly equal to piston displacement could be drawn into the cylinder. This is not possible, except by supercharging, because the passages through which the air must flow offer a resistance, the force pushing the air into the cylinder is only atmospheric, and the air absorbs heat during the process. Therefore, volumetric efficiency is deter-mined by measuring (with an orifice or venturi type meter) the amount of air taken in by the engine, converting the amount to volume, and comparing this volume to the piston displacement
    From Here


    these links offer some good reading on the subject. They do not take into account that the possiblily exists with modern cam profiles, custom intake and headers, may be able to push an engine over 100VE
    Last edited by BoostedTy; 01-04-2005 at 11:41 AM.
    Damn.

  7. #37
    Registered User BoostedTy's Avatar
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    Understand my posts. My posts are to make sure my S10 bretheren are representing the S10 world accurately.

    I am not attacking your build or direction. I just think that even in a perfect world, 125% is not do-able. I could see certain RPM over 100% for a few hundred RPM's, but IMO 125% on a NA motor is too high.

    Sad thing is your build might be pushing more HP and TQ then my worn stock Typhoon. I would love to have that much HP at my wheels.
    Build sounds good. I can't wait to see the intake and headers, once they are built. I bet it will be an impressive motor.
    :bigthumb:
    Damn.

  8. #38
    Registered User Catching Second's Avatar
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    Hey ti28,
    You still building your 1,200hp 5.4?
    "A true hotrodder wouldn't be content untill he had created a car so violent, so hairy, so totally sick that the very act of dropping the hammer would result in instant death. Anything less results in the need to go faster." - Tony DeFeo

  9. #39
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    Originally posted by Catching Second
    Hey ti28,
    You still building your 1,200hp 5.4?
    :huh: 1200HP? Post a "how-to" for that one please!
    Prepare for the worst, pray for the best; if you do, then you will ALWAYS be ready for anything! Faith ALWAYS overrides fear!

  10. #40
    Registered User Catching Second's Avatar
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    Aparently it's easy. Just send the block to get all the work done. No biggy, only about $4,000 worth.

    The pistons alone were $1,700, so they gotta be good.... right?

    Supercharge it to 20psi. Put a 500 shot of nitros just to help those heads blow off that much easier.
    Port the heads until they are .000000001 away from being too big.
    Get a TOP SECRET custom intake, custom cam, custom push rods, custom carburetor, custom air cleaner, custom radiator, custom valve cover, and especially custom steel braided fuel line cover all made for it.
    Should run you about $35,000.

    But don't get your hopes up to much, because you only get about 30 seconds after start up before the head bolts start shooting through the hood like god damn .257 bullets and the pistons shoot through the oil pan.

    Originally posted by ti28
    im in th emists of building a 1200hp motor with a 500shoot of n2o and 20 psi from a supercharger..on a 5.4...lots and lots machine work...2.500$worth of milling and decksqauring work..

    Originally posted by ti28
    ...i just spent about 2500$ at a shop to have the hole block squared....and theres gonna be about 30gs invested into this motor.....i have everything set right the rod angulaty,deck hight,compression hieght of the pistion...copmression ration the heads are fully worked to the max but stayin in the max of 90% size of the intake vavle...and whut not i will keep u in turn man.....i know whut im doing...i spent 1700$on the pistion alone....they will expand with the increased cyclender psi ..
    "A true hotrodder wouldn't be content untill he had created a car so violent, so hairy, so totally sick that the very act of dropping the hammer would result in instant death. Anything less results in the need to go faster." - Tony DeFeo

  11. #41
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    Originally posted by Catching Second
    before the head bolts start shooting through the hood like god damn .257 bullets and the pistons shoot through the oil pan.

    I hate those damn .257 bullets.. :rofl:


    Dirty Harry and that crazy .257 LMAO
    LT1/4L60E/Shaved handles, emblems, antenna/5-4 Drop/16" Xtreme Wheels.


    In 1095, Pope Urban II commanded the beginning of the most heinous period ever documented: The Crusades. While killing over 100,000 Turks in 1098, the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.

  12. #42
    Registered User loweSt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Catching Second
    Aparently it's easy. Just send the block to get all the work done. No biggy, only about $4,000 worth.

    The pistons alone were $1,700, so they gotta be good.... right?

    Supercharge it to 20psi. Put a 500 shot of nitros just to help those heads blow off that much easier.
    Port the heads until they are .000000001 away from being too big.
    Get a TOP SECRET custom intake, custom cam, custom push rods, custom carburetor, custom air cleaner, custom radiator, custom valve cover, and especially custom steel braided fuel line cover all made for it.
    Should run you about $35,000.

    But don't get your hopes up to much, because you only get about 30 seconds after start up before the head bolts start shooting through the hood like god damn .257 bullets and the pistons shoot through the oil pan.

    um... you know dragsters run from 6,000 to 8,000 hp right? You act like what he is doing is impossible. What he is doing is no where near impossible. Nowi m not going to argue with the VE topic becuz im still arguing with myself on that.

    You act like 1,200 is out of reach. Bull shit. My best friend's dad has a 1,400 68 camaro and has build many MANY motors that were over 700 hp. It all takes time and money. Now wethere Ti is really building this 1,200 hp motor, i have no say, but it is possible!
    Warrantykiller: you need to rob a bank
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    damn straight, pump her monkey and make her know that she's with a chevy guy

  13. #43
    Registered User thadlinkwent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by loweSt
    You act like 1,200 is out of reach. Bull shit. My best friend's dad has a 1,400 68 camaro and has build many MANY motors that were over 700 hp. It all takes time and money. Now wethere Ti is really building this 1,200 hp motor, i have no say, but it is possible!
    Do you happen to have the specs for that 1400 Hp maro?? I would like to see those, if you can get them...



    Also, TI do you pics of the engine itself during the build? Do you a completed pic of the engine?? Do you have pics of the parts???
    Originally posted by S/T Lover
    Just stay the hell away from Thadlinkwent, he's a troublemaker.
    No 4 door love here

  14. #44
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    Old link maybe a few havent ever seen, but this gives me wood!!!!

    Imagine the money into that thing!!

    http://www.sportmachines.com/magrack/ttsup_8-95.html

  15. #45
    Registered User Catching Second's Avatar
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    Originally posted by loweSt
    um... you know dragsters run from 6,000 to 8,000 hp right? You act like what he is doing is impossible. What he is doing is no where near impossible. Nowi m not going to argue with the VE topic becuz im still arguing with myself on that.

    You act like 1,200 is out of reach. Bull shit. My best friend's dad has a 1,400 68 camaro and has build many MANY motors that were over 700 hp. It all takes time and money. Now wethere Ti is really building this 1,200 hp motor, i have no say, but it is possible!
    Please kid, you're speaking basics. I'm not saying I don't think it's impossible to build that. It's very possible. I just don't think it's possible for a typical 21 year old who is still in school to afford to build a $35,000 1,200hp engine along with the drive train and chassis modifications that are going to be needed along with putting a 1,200hp engine in. To be honest if you're going to put $35,000 into an engine, I would think you'd have something a little more than 1,200hp actually, but who's counting?
    "A true hotrodder wouldn't be content untill he had created a car so violent, so hairy, so totally sick that the very act of dropping the hammer would result in instant death. Anything less results in the need to go faster." - Tony DeFeo

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