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Thread: CAM Lobe Separation

  1. #1
    STFU YOU MOFO!!!!!!!!!!! 96scraper's Avatar
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    Arrow CAM Lobe Separation

    Possible sticky here.

    I have been reading and according to Engine Master magazine.... Winter issue. Volume 8, No. 4

    WWW.Enginemasters.com

    They did a test on camshafts with different lobe separation, in degrees. Cams tested; 106, 108, 110, 112 and 114 degrees.
    the results as follows.

    Degrees - 106 - 108 - 110 - 112 - 114

    RPM -- HP -- HP -- HP -- HP -- HP

    3600 - 258 - 262 - 261 - 264 - 261
    3800 - 281 - 284 - 282 - 283 - 280
    4000 - 311 - 311 - 308 - 307 - 302
    4200 - 333 - 338 - 333 - 330 - 325
    4400 - 353 - 362 - 356 - 352 - 347
    4600 - 375 - 382 - 375 - 373 - 369
    4800 - 393 - 399 - 392 - 390 - 386
    5000 - 409 - 415 - 409 - 407 - 404
    5200 - 427 - 432 - 429 - 424 - 421
    5400 - 441 - 446 - 444 - 435 - 436
    5600 - 453 - 458 - 455 - 445 - 446
    5800 - 459 - 465 - 461 - 449 - 451
    6000 - 464 - 470 - 465 - 451 - 435
    6200 - 469 - 474 - 469 - 452* 455*
    6400 - 470* 476* 470* 449 - 453

    AVG -- 387 - 392 - 388 - 382 - 380

    * = Max HP

    All Cams supplied by Comp Cams

    Engine tested is a Chevy ZZ4 crate motor, 10:1 compression
    AFR 190CC heads, Edelbrock Victor JR intake, 750 CFM Road Demon carb and MSD ignition system.

    Results. As you see the 108 degree pulled ahead a good
    20 Horsepower from the lower 112 degree cam.

    Even thought the 112 and 114 degree cam produced a little
    less power, a higher lobe cam can produce better idle quality
    with more vacuum.

    So if you want a cam that produces the most power, the 108 cam
    might be the best bet for you. If your concerned about vacuum
    and idle then maybe a sacrifice to the 110 or 112 degree cams
    should be considered.
    Last edited by 96scraper; 11-24-2005 at 03:16 AM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User ZZ4Blazer's Avatar
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    Did all of them have the same duration and vavle lift?

    I believe a NA motor is going to idle much rougher with the lower #. 106* degree cam is going to idle and drive(lower rpms) much rougher than the 114 will.


    Nitrous, and blower motors also like between 112-114* to fill the cylinders up more, and not bleed off.

    Basically, no one cam is gonna be perfect for each application.
    Jim 94 Stepside
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  3. #3
    STFU YOU MOFO!!!!!!!!!!! 96scraper's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ZZ4Blazer
    Did all of them have the same duration and vavle lift?

    I believe a NA motor is going to idle much rougher with the lower #. 106* degree cam is going to idle and drive(lower rpms) much rougher than the 114 will.


    Nitrous, and blower motors also like between 112-114* to fill the cylinders up more, and not bleed off.

    Basically, no one cam is gonna be perfect for each application.
    The engine tested is a 350 chevy by the way.
    Yes all cams have the same specs. So your saying the 106 degree with idle rough? Whats NA?

    The 112 and 114 produce lower horsepower... I wouldnt go with them ..... personally.....

    Im not ever going to use nitrous. I just have a street ride..... no strip or racing.

    I built a 350 in my camaro in 1985 and I never even heard about separation and degrees, just picked a good duration and lift. But nowadays with computers they map out every little thing.
    Originally posted by thechariot
    go punch him in the dick.

    Originally posted by RustyButTrusty Asshole Drivers - 0, Me - 1
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    Motors with OBD2 and MAF, along with some later OBD1 vehicles go apesh*t under 112 lobe seperation. These are so choppy at idle they cant get a good solid still vacuum read and go banana's. ECM's need good solid vacuum at low rpms!!
    NA, Normally Aspirated meaning no Forced induction like a S/C -Blower-Turbo and also no chicken sh*t juice, all motor!,

  5. #5
    Registered User ZZ4Blazer's Avatar
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    NA= naturally aspirated

    Yes, if I've done my research, a cam with 106 LS should bleed more cylinder pressure off at idle and lower in the rpm range. Not as noticeable in the lower rpms, but should be at idle.

    But, this will promote more top end. Also the reason that the lower degreed separation cams created more power in the higher rpms.

    Powers not all about peak HP too. Did they list average hp for each cam, as well as the TQ?

    Its like comparing a centrifical blower to a good sized turbo. The centrifical will probably make more peak HP at the same psi, but the turbo will make a TON more average hp and midrange TQ through out the rpm range.

    On the street, Id keep between 110-112 for a NA motor, and probably a little more valve lift if the heads would flow enough for it.
    Jim 94 Stepside
    ZZ430 clone V8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harley
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  6. #6
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    You have to have a high lsa on alot of fuel injected vehicals for them to run, unless you want to spend 3 months in front of a laptop in you passenger seat tuning.

    So you cant just think 106 lsa = more power bottom line, you have to consider other components of your build.


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  7. #7
    STFU YOU MOFO!!!!!!!!!!! 96scraper's Avatar
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    Yes this is a NA motor and it seems like you guys prefer a cam in the 112 to 114 range. I will put the avaerage HP in the original message. Yes it does seem all cams produce their peak HP at the highest RPM. Well thats life I guess... many parts to choose from...its all in your preference and application.
    Originally posted by thechariot
    go punch him in the dick.

    Originally posted by RustyButTrusty Asshole Drivers - 0, Me - 1
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  8. #8
    Registered User ZZ4Blazer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ZZ4Blazer

    On the street, Id keep between 110-112 for a NA motor, and probably a little more valve lift if the heads would flow enough for it.
    All cams are gonna make peak HP at redline, I didn't mean to make it sound otherwise. I jsut meant that just because one cam made the highest peak HP, doesnt mean it would be the fastest in a certain vehicle.
    Jim 94 Stepside
    ZZ430 clone V8
    NX kit in the works
    Tremec T56 6 speed
    8.5" rear
    Quote Originally Posted by Harley
    Go before show any day of the week.

  9. #9
    STFU YOU MOFO!!!!!!!!!!! 96scraper's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ZZ4Blazer
    All cams are gonna make peak HP at redline, I didn't mean to make it sound otherwise. I jsut meant that just because one cam made the highest peak HP, doesnt mean it would be the fastest in a certain vehicle.
    I see what your saying, let me ask out the 106 and 108 cams, you guys said they would idel rough... so would a 110 or 112 be the better choice... just sacrifice some HP for the idle and vacuum? Also I have been looking at cams online and Summit cams are only 114, comp cams are mostly 110, its hard to find a 108 degree or 106.
    Originally posted by thechariot
    go punch him in the dick.

    Originally posted by RustyButTrusty Asshole Drivers - 0, Me - 1
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  10. #10
    Registered User ZZ4Blazer's Avatar
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    I believe if you look more at a race only cam, I think you'll find they'll have the lower lsa.

    I have noticed most of the Comps are 110. Noticed a lot of the crane's are 112 also.

    Most hy. cams dont have a lot of lift. If you've got a decent set of heads that will benefit from more lift, Id run a 1.6 rocker. Should make a little more top end, and not sacrifice driveability.

    No reason for the truck to have the shitty idle, and driveability of a huge cam, if your not getting the power from it. You really just need to figure what your doing with the motor, your rpm range, and match them to a good set of heads.

    I've got a very mild cam, but a decent amout of lift. I've got plenty of vacuum to run my brakes and such, idle good, and she still wants to pull to 6200. 400+ hp. I think with some better tuning and exhuast I should be able to pull another 10-20 hp out of her. Hoping to pick up some midrange most of all with exhuast work.
    Jim 94 Stepside
    ZZ430 clone V8
    NX kit in the works
    Tremec T56 6 speed
    8.5" rear
    Quote Originally Posted by Harley
    Go before show any day of the week.

  11. #11
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    It's not that difficult to get an EFI motor to run on a big cam, but it does require that you know what you're doing and understand the dynamics involved. LSA is really only half of the equation. Duration in addition to the LSA lets you know what the amount of overlap the cam has. The more overlap a cam has, the rougher it's going to idle.

    For instance: The cam in my blazer has a 112 LSA, but because of the duration, it has 64 degrees of off-seat overlap.

    Compare that to the Comp Cams 240H. It has a 108 LSA, but because the duration is so short, the off-seat overlap is only 28 degrees. Less than half the overlap of my cam, even though the LSA is quite narrow.

    Trying to focus on a single number when selecting a cam is a mistake. Everything has to work together as a system. There is no "magic bullet" where if you do this one thing, you motor is going to be fast.

    Teeleton
    Last edited by Teeleton; 11-24-2005 at 09:20 PM.
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