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Thread: lowering the front using bolts on torsion bar

  1. #1
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    lowering the front using bolts on torsion bar

    i just lowered my 97 2dr 4x4 blazer today. when i lowered the front i backed out my driver side torsion bar bolt all the way but on my passenger side i had to leave the bolt almost half way in to make both sides even. whats up with that? the bolts have NEVER been fooled with, i put smaller bump stops on and the driver side is like 1 to 2 inches from the bottom arm and the passenger side bump is like a half inch from the bottom arm. why is my truck even when the bolts are all the way in but bookoo uneven when i lowered it? what could be the problem. i've checked all my bushing and tire pressures are even on both sides. its even now but i mean it shouldnt be like it is ya know? does anyone have an idea? if so let me know PLEASE!
    elvis

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    Registered User syclonekid43's Avatar
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    my old 88 did that. never botherd to look into the problem,but mine didnt need to be in half way. forgot which side needed it.
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    will work for food! phatfarmer2's Avatar
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    had the same issue
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    ???

    i mean does this mean that somethings wrong....what can i do to fix it? i'm kinda balling on a budget ya know? i got a baby on the way now and i lost my old show truck 95s10 in new orleans from katrina.
    elvis

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    I would put both bolts in and level them the best you can, If you remove the bolts, it puts a lot of stress on the control arms in second gens.
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    Originally posted by 1Low4wd
    I would put both bolts in and level them the best you can, If you remove the bolts, it puts a lot of stress on the control arms in second gens.
    WHY??

    That doesn't make sense to me, weather you lower the front of a 4x4 truck by taking the bolts out or use drop keys or flip the stock keys or what ever method, its the same, because the torsion bar is twisting, one way or another, so according to your statement any lowered 4x4 puts a lot of stress on the control arms in second gens.

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    Read Below -

    From Fetto in another thread

    69.99 for alignment, but ive told everyone after my experiences with cranking the bolts downGO BUY THE KEYS!?!???! theres nothing better, the rides good and u wont damage anything do it right the first time, trust me, ive been through 2 control arms under warranty, bushings, ball joints and idler arms due to cranking the bolts out..the keys are fine just gotta break in, so do it right the first time, please, and get the keys, or else u will be sorry in the long run
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    Originally posted by 1Low4wd
    Read Below -

    From Fetto in another thread

    69.99 for alignment, but ive told everyone after my experiences with cranking the bolts downGO BUY THE KEYS!?!???! theres nothing better, the rides good and u wont damage anything do it right the first time, trust me, ive been through 2 control arms under warranty, bushings, ball joints and idler arms due to cranking the bolts out..the keys are fine just gotta break in, so do it right the first time, please, and get the keys, or else u will be sorry in the long run
    YES, I know he wrote that. there is still no rational explanation as to why he was having troubles with his controll arms. Not directly to lowering by backing the bolt out anyway. Anyone can see that no matter how you lower the front of a 4x4 ( flipped keys, belltech keys, notched cross member, no bolts) all you are doing is turning and setting the torsion bar itself (those are the pair of ~3foot long bars that goes from the keys to the front of the truck near the wheels)
    So I still can't understand why or how one method of lowering causes problems and the other doesn't because, no matter how you do it, you are doing the same thing. (turning and setting the torsion bar)
    No one has ever answered the question "WHY is there problems when backing out bolts? what is it that happens mechanically that causes problems with control arms.

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    Originally posted by ///ARINUTS...
    YES, I know he wrote that. there is still no rational explanation as to why he was having troubles with his controll arms. Not directly to lowering by backing the bolt out anyway. Anyone can see that no matter how you lower the front of a 4x4 ( flipped keys, belltech keys, notched cross member, no bolts) all you are doing is turning and setting the torsion bar itself (those are the pair of ~3foot long bars that goes from the keys to the front of the truck near the wheels)
    So I still can't understand why or how one method of lowering causes problems and the other doesn't because, no matter how you do it, you are doing the same thing. (turning and setting the torsion bar)
    No one has ever answered the question "WHY is there problems when backing out bolts? what is it that happens mechanically that causes problems with control arms.

    I agree completely.. I can't see how it matters what method you use.. All you are doing is changing how far the torsion bars are twisted.. It really shouldn't matter what method you use to do it..

    -Matt

  10. #10
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    The Belltech keys are completely different then stock keys. They are indexed different... So when you add the Belltech Keys and tighten you bolts to the same height as they where originally stock. This is a 3" drop. The more you back out the bolts the lower you go. Now as for the stock keys with the torsion bolts lossened, you are putting more stress on the suspension due to the tension on the torsion bars.

    Belltech Key - Lower truck 3" with the same amount of tension on the torsion bars as stock.

    Backin out bolts - Puts more stress on front end components, due to adding more tension on torsion bars to acheive drop.

    Comment from Belltech - Belltech has tweaked the Torsion Bar Adjusting Arms by changing the rotation (re-clocking) of the hexagon hole of the Torsion Bar Adjusting Arms to achieve the correct adjustment of the front torsion bars
    Last edited by 1Low4wd; 02-01-2006 at 10:18 AM.
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    The Belltech keys are completely different then stock keys. They are indexed different... So when you add the Belltech Keys and tighten you bolts to the same height as they where originally stock. This is a 3" drop. The more you back out the bolts the lower you go.
    OK, when you say that, do you understand what is happening?
    there is a hex shape cut out on the keys, the belltech keys have the hex cut out in a different position, the hex is twisted. You are correct that when you tighten the bolts all the way up it is a 3" drop with the belltech keys. the position of the torsion bar itself is now in the same position as it was with stock keys and no bolts.

    Now as for the stock keys with the torsion bolts lossened, you are putting more stress on the suspension due to the tension on the torsion bars.

    Belltech Key - Lower truck 3" with the same amount of tension on the torsion bars as stock.

    Backin out bolts - Puts more stress on front end components, due to adding more tension on torsion bars to acheive drop.
    This (quote above) is what doesn't make sense.

    If you use the belltech keys with the bolts all the way in its a 3" drop. If you use just remove the bolts it's a 3" drop. the torsion bars themselves, not the keys, the torsion bars are in the same position to achieve a 3" drop, with the same amount of tension. because it is the amount of tension in the torsion bars that adjust the ride height.

    This is a quote from
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-suspension3.htm

    Torsion bars use the twisting properties of a steel bar to provide coil-spring-like performance. This is how they work: One end of a bar is anchored to the vehicle frame. The other end is attached to a wishbone (KEYS), which acts like a lever that moves perpendicular to the torsion bar. When the wheel hits a bump, vertical motion is transferred to the wishbone and then, through the levering action, to the torsion bar. The torsion bar then twists along its axis to provide the spring force.

    Also after reading this, I believe that for a 3" drop, it is better to just remove the bolt as there is more supsension travel, because the keys are free to move up when the vehicle is slightly elivated.

    Comment from Belltech - Belltech has tweaked the Torsion Bar Adjusting Arms by changing the rotation (re-clocking) of the hexagon hole of the Torsion Bar Adjusting Arms to achieve the correct adjustment of the front torsion bars
    YES, I'm sure this is what belltech said. Belltech has to say what they have to say to sell their product. But they say enough and not too much. What is the "correct adjustment of front torsion bars" refereing to? it's refering to the amount of drop. the belltech keys will give you more of a drop then removing the bolts, because once you remove the bolts, you can't lower anymore. so then if you want to go lower then 3" you need the belltech keys. OR you need to flip your stock keys, but I think flipping your stock keys give you even more of a drop. I'm not sure of that.

    So, in conclusion, What happens at the torsion bar crossmember, doesn't really matter, a 2"drop is a 2" drop. a 3" drop is a 3" drop. a 4" drop is a 4" drop. no matter how you do it, all you are doing is twisting the torsion bar it self to lessen the tension which in turn lowers the front.

    In addition, I am not denying anyone that they had control arm problems. I am still looking for a good resion to why they had control arm problems, and if there is something else that causes these control arm problems that I have overlooked, I want to know and figure it out. I am thinking that when Fetto removed his bolts , he didn't do an alignment right away. which I believe is what caused the control arm failure, and I know he had an alignment done at some point, but I think it was after he had parts in his front end changed. You have to realize that when you lower the car other suspension/ front end parts move to different positions, so an alignment is almost required.

    I hope I have cleared things up a bit.
    Last edited by ///ARINUTS...; 02-01-2006 at 01:58 PM.

  12. #12
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    ARINUTS your exactly right, thats why it pisses me off when people say your gonna mess your truck up if you dont use keys.


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    Originally posted by Superbee
    ARINUTS your exactly right, thats why it pisses me off when people say your gonna mess your truck up if you dont use keys.
    Thanks for the support man

  14. #14
    My S-10 fleet is gone... s10blazed's Avatar
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    ANother note I'd like to address is that lowering the truck does not change the tension on the torsion bar. (that should actually be the TORSION on the torsion bar since it refers to a rotating force). The only thing that will change that is the weight of the vehicle as it rests on the wishbone. Airnuts is totally correct when saying that the only real thing that makes a 4x4 lower is where the wishbone 'mounts' to the chassis. Whether it 'mounts' a few inches lower with a bolt, or 'mounts' a few degrees off of stock location with the keys.

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    Originally posted by s10blazed
    ANother note I'd like to address is that lowering the truck does not change the tension on the torsion bar. (that should actually be the TORSION on the torsion bar since it refers to a rotating force). The only thing that will change that is the weight of the vehicle as it rests on the wishbone. Airnuts is totally correct when saying that the only real thing that makes a 4x4 lower is where the wishbone 'mounts' to the chassis. Whether it 'mounts' a few inches lower with a bolt, or 'mounts' a few degrees off of stock location with the keys.

    Exactly.. The tension on the bar is determined by the amount of weight the front wheels are holding up... It has nothing to do with the position of the bar/key..

    -Matt

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