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Thread: Teach me about primer and paint!

  1. #1
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    Teach me about primer and paint!

    Well, im on to the final body work stage of the blazer. I need to be tought some things about primer and paint tho. First off, after all my body work I want to use some high build spray primer. What kind should I get? What kind of gun do I need to spray it? After im done sanding that ill want to spray that with sealer correct? What kind of sealer should I use. After the sealer has been wetsanded I want to use some 'final wipe' solution correct? What type of paint should I be spraying? Also what kind of gun do I need to spray it? Please teach me!

    Also...What are the techniques/chemicals involved in cleaning the gun?
    Last edited by SlimJimmy; 02-27-2006 at 06:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User 89ontjimmy's Avatar
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    the first thing I would do is, Etch primer all the bare metel spots,this will help the primer stick better,as for h/b primer go with Du-pont 4004s 2k primer / sealer,give the truck 3 or 4 good coats and block with 320 and finsh off with 500 or 600 wet or dry. the primer /sealer will go bolth ways with differen't actavatiors.theres no need to sand the sealer just top coat it with whatever colour paint you want..i sugest Du-pont because thats what i use at my work and perisonal trucks.As for the gun get a HVLP style.

  3. #3
    Registered User 94blz327's Avatar
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    I could write a book on this one but, to keep it somewhat simple:

    Stick to one brand if possible from primer to clear. This will alleviate incompatible chemical problems. Peeling, cracking etc. ALso decide up front whether or not to go with a single stage paint such as a acrylic enamal, or with two stage which is base-clear. Single stage is cheaper, but a two stage is the most common now. Going with a clear coat gives the added benefit of final sanding and polish. Yes, enamels can be color sanded and buffed, but the clears are much easier to deal with.

    I have been using the Omni brand and been pretty satisfied. I have always been a fan of PPG, but as mentioned above DuPont is very good to.

    Always follow the label directions, mixing, flash times, temp, humidity, correct reducers etc to get the best finish.

    The vehicle should always be clean. Hose off the frame, underside, engine compartment etc. Try to minimize dust. Assuming you are not painting in a booth, create your own in the garage with plastic. Also ventilate your booth. It helps. Spray the floor with water before painting. Keeps the dust down.

    Masking: A good masking job will turn into a good paint job. Even when using primer, mask areas you don't want paint on.

    Wax and grease removers: Use these at all stages, (by all stages I mean before sanding, before primer, before topcoating) even before sanding the first time on your existing finish. You dont want to push wax into the sanding scratches, paint will not stick to wax.

    Personal safety: Can't stress this enough, wear protective gear, RESPIRATOR! and a paper suit when using the top coats. Gloves are another good idea. I have been sick a few times from doing stupid things with paint. You do not want to do the same. One other note, how many old painters do you see? Keep safe. Even sanding dust is bad for you.

    Paint guns: I have used everything from a 39.00 special to a 500.00 gun and had good results with them all. Just practice to get a good feel for what it can do before you paint the car. I like the HVLP Sharp guns. Can be had at NAPA fairly cheap. (150 or so) Get one with interchangable tips and nozzles. Your materials (paint) require different orifice sizes between primers and top coat. Guns can be cleaned with MEK (methly ethyl ketone - nasty stuff) or a cheap gun wash type product. Even laquer thinner does a good job at cleaning.

    You can use a primer/sealer combo and not worry about the seperate sealer coat. If using the hi-build older laquer based primers you will need to use sealer. If using sealer, the top coat needs to be sprayed within a few hours, or you will need to scuff the surface prior to top coating.

    Like I said I could go on and on. I recommend talking to a few folks who have painted if you know any. Also books are a good source of info. Product guides are full of tips as well.

    Preparation is the paint job. Take your time, do it right. It's easy to get frustrated and rush the process, in the end you will not be satisifed if you do. Been there too many times myself.

    I have probably left out many details, but hopefully this helps.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by 94blz327; 03-03-2006 at 08:31 AM.

  4. #4
    Double Bagged s10blaza's Avatar
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    Good shit there, stuck!

  5. #5
    It's all about to change winditup57's Avatar
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    Great tip on the wax/grease removers..I would have never guessed that...I will keep that in my mind when it comes to getting my shit started:bigthumb:
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  6. #6
    ls1+t56+01=love low86blazer's Avatar
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    very very very well put.

    we use prep sal to clean the surface. remeber to put it on wet and take it off wet. other wise it doesnt do shit.
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  7. #7
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    hahaha stickied in the first day....nicee.

    If I spray some hi build, then block it to make sure everything is good to go, I can then spray sealer on top of it whenever I want right? As for the sealer, will its surface be smooth enough for straight paint right after? I always thought you should sand it with 400 or 600 or something.

    So I am looking at a DeVilbiss Finishline 3 on ebay for about 100 bucks plus shipping....would that be a good gun?
    Last edited by SlimJimmy; 02-28-2006 at 12:40 AM.

  8. #8
    YA RLY! dc395's Avatar
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    good info there, they are also making DTM primers now which are direct to metal, with no self etching involved.

    ill elaborate more on the epoxy primers.

    the epoxy primers (R-M's EP589 for example) can be used as a primer surfacer when mixed 4:1 with the activator, PA897. yielding a high build. when mixed 4:1:1 with a reducer such as a UR series reducer from R-M, it yields a thinner more even well applied sealer.

    Ive been using the BASF line of paaints (R-M and Glasurit) because thats the lines the body shop supply store i work for handles. (discounted for me)

    although my dad has been using sikkens for years even in the body shop he owned for years with great success.

    the devilbiss finishline 3 looks to be pretty good. liek another guy said, ive used 30 dollar cheap guns all the way up to high end sata's with equally good results. i use the cheapies for primer mostly and the sata for base coats and clears

    also remember, with HVLP you need alot more air tank and bigger lines, because of the cfm the guns use, sometimes around the 16-18 cfm mark, with only 15-25 psi coming into the gun. id recommend at least an 80 gal compressor and 3/8 lines to run a good hvlp gun. i use a 70 gallon tank at the shop with a sata jet90 (gravity feed, conventional gun) works good. the devilbiss plus gun is a conventional gravity feed gun, a good alternative.
    Originally posted by lycan
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  9. #9
    speed bumps suck! rydinlow84's Avatar
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    Im telling you we need a paint section like we tried voting for before cause id be posting in there all day. anyway ill write my book later on pretty much everythings been summed up by the others.

    spray primers with 1.7 - 2.0 size tip

    basecoat/ clear coats with 1.3 to 1.5

    touch up with .8 to 1.0


    i myseslf use a sata NR 2000 for the base/clear w/ a 1.4 tip

    and a sata klc-b primer gun w/ 1.7 tip

    www.spraygunworld.com has a great selection on guns from top line to budget.

    any questions hit me up on here or aim ocblazer949
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  10. #10
    paint, paint, paint mixbreedblaze's Avatar
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    ill half to agree with pretty much everything on here already said, but only thing I didnt really see was practice, practice, practice.....................

    Play with old fenders, hoods, whatever you can find. I even painted a microwave and telephone. Just so that you can get a "feel" for your new spray gun and the materials that you will be using. If you can get your "practice" piece to turn out damn good then move right on to your vehicle.
    also, you can spray water to get a feel of how to overlap your patterns etc........... plus for a "newbie" (no offense) a full paint cup can get pretty damn heavy when doin a hood or roof....I know it did for me.........

    anyway........................Just as everyone else said, you could write books on this all day, lol, but it all boils down to alittle tech info, personal preference, and practice...

    but if ya need any info and help on doin graphiks and airbrushing hit me up..............
    later and happy painting....
    4-door, shaved handles, shaved antenna, lowered, welded and shaved body seams, rollpan with plate off to left side, two tone tweed, custom paint and airbrush, Mazzi Sphinx 2 17"s.....

    Your idea of a thrill ride: Six Flags. My idea of a thrill ride: teeter-tottering on a speed bump

  11. #11
    Registered User 94blz327's Avatar
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    If I spray some hi build, then block it to make sure everything is good to go, I can then spray sealer on top of it whenever I want right? As for the sealer, will its surface be smooth enough for straight paint right after? I always thought you should sand it with 400 or 600 or something.
    Yes, if using a high build laquer based primer, you will need to use a sealer before the first color coat. I have used PPG DAS-1980 with great results. The sealer is applied as part of the top coat process, it is the first layer applied. Usually 2 thin coats is all that is needed. It will be smooth enough for color as well.

    Some of the new catalyst type primers act as a sealer now so you do not need a seperate sealer coat.

    Usually you will spray 3 coats of color, and 2-3 of clear if using 2 stage paints. The first color coat should be applied somewhat thin, a little more than misted on, but not a total coverage. The second and third coats are generally thicker coverage type coats. The reason for this is less sagging and running of the paint. Using base coat, if you do get a run or sag while painting, you can either blot it if your careful, or wait 20 minutes and lightly sand it out. The next coat will cover it.

    One other note on gun cleaning: when done spraying each stage, make sure you thoroughly clean the gun, inside and out. If left dirty for too long, the internal air/paint passages will begin to clog and your next coat will not spray right.

    As mentioned, practice a lot. It is an art afterall.

  12. #12
    Under Construction 98low4x4blazer's Avatar
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  13. #13
    speed bumps suck! rydinlow84's Avatar
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    ill be repainting my blazer within a few weeks so ill post up step by step for you guys, it will prob be from a different angle than where youll come from since the body is already prepped and been painted but ill try to go through everything from bodywork to primer to paint and graphics and clear.
    visit my site:
    My CarDomain site www.cardomain.com/id/lowblazer84

    Body drop progress
    http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h9...20Body%20Drop/
    looks good :bigthumb:

    2.8L v-6
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    upcoming : sealing up floor and start interior

  14. #14
    paint, paint, paint mixbreedblaze's Avatar
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    i would also suggest, getting a few guns....one for clear, one for metallics, etc..........but that can get pricey...........that way your clear doesnt all of a sudden spray out sum nice metallic pieces....
    4-door, shaved handles, shaved antenna, lowered, welded and shaved body seams, rollpan with plate off to left side, two tone tweed, custom paint and airbrush, Mazzi Sphinx 2 17"s.....

    Your idea of a thrill ride: Six Flags. My idea of a thrill ride: teeter-tottering on a speed bump

  15. #15
    speed bumps suck! rydinlow84's Avatar
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    I totally forgot about telling you guys about this site, they have alot of good videos to rent about pretty much anything heres one on basic bodywork and painting. cost is only 9.99 for a week and half.

    i havent seen this video personally so i cant rate it but it would be a start.

    http://technicalvideorental.com/inde...oducts_id=1702
    visit my site:
    My CarDomain site www.cardomain.com/id/lowblazer84

    Body drop progress
    http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h9...20Body%20Drop/
    looks good :bigthumb:

    2.8L v-6
    Bagged :D
    upcoming : sealing up floor and start interior

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