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Thread: Teach me about primer and paint!

  1. #31
    Registered User 94blz327's Avatar
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    In answer to the buffing question:

    When you use an enamel paint, typically you shoot 3-4 coats. With the 2 stage (base clear), typically the clear coat is also applied around 4 coats.

    As a beginner painter, I found I would either sand a little too deep or when buffing, burn through an edge when I color sanded an enamel finish. As I did more work, I learned when and where to sand and buff to get the best finish. It does take some finesse. Fixing those mistakes are where the big difference comes into play.

    Clear coat is more forgiving when you make a mistake sanding or buffing. Usually you only have to re-clear the affected panel and not the entire side, or have to deal with blending color into the next panels as you might have to do with enamel paints.

    Also, if you are using the 2 stage system, you can apply a few more coats of clear than normal and give yourself a little more room for sanding later on. Another nice feature is laying on a few coats of clear, sanding it with a 600 grit, then spraying a few more coats of clear. After that has dried, sand with 1500 or 2000 grit and buff as usual. This will give you that deep mirror finish similar to the old style laquer/clear paint jobs.

    With single stage, you really don't have the same options. You can add a few more coats but generally it is not recommended to go too thick. If you do it dries funny in some cases, and also can lead to sagging much easier.

    When buffing, especially for a first timer, use the foam system from 3M or a similar product. The foam pads will not burn through the paint in most cases. Yes, you can burn through if you try or get really careless, but generally not a worry and they are excellent to use. Now, wool pads on the other hand work well, but you generate more heat with wool and can burn through an edge very quickly.

    Compounds for buffing differ greatly as well. I usually use the Finesse-it (3M again) brand. There are 2 stages, one is a compound used after cutting (color sanding), then the second stage is a polish to bring out the shine. After that, use a swirl remover which really shines it up nice. After properly curing you can start with the waxes, glazes etc.

    There are many different products available for buffing. Meguires has some nice stuff, Wizards makes some as well. Find one you like or ask around to get opinions before buying, then stick with the entire line of products to get the best results. Mixing brands usually brings unpredictable results.

    This stuff is not cheap, especially when outfitting for foam the first time. Make sure to get good quality first, then worry about cost. You will appreciate the difference it makes.

  2. #32
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    I sprayed some of that Ultimate 2K yesterday. Today I tried sanding it with dry 150 grit and it sands, but the sanding residue isnt really like a sanding dust lik you would normally have, it more kind of balls up with itself. Its almost as if it isnt totally cured or something. BUT, I didnt spray it on that thick, and I left it overnight as per instructions on the can. Whats the deal? Should I just keep going like it is? Should I wetsand it?

  3. #33
    ls1+t56+01=love low86blazer's Avatar
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    that doesnt sound to bad. like ive said ive buffed many times but only a single stage once. ive done two stage on every other one. i need to invest in a good buffer and some products, im thinking 3M.

    thanks for the tips
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  4. #34
    My S-10 fleet is gone... s10blazed's Avatar
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    Originally posted by SlimJimmy
    I sprayed some of that Ultimate 2K yesterday. Today I tried sanding it with dry 150 grit and it sands, but the sanding residue isnt really like a sanding dust lik you would normally have, it more kind of balls up with itself. Its almost as if it isnt totally cured or something. BUT, I didnt spray it on that thick, and I left it overnight as per instructions on the can. Whats the deal? Should I just keep going like it is? Should I wetsand it?
    Did yo mix the hardener in to the proper amount? What temperature and humidity is it in?

  5. #35
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    i have heard of that happening before, thats why i strayed away from it... the guys at the paint store said that alot of people complain about it.

  6. #36
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by s10blazed
    Did yo mix the hardener in to the proper amount? What temperature and humidity is it in?
    I did mix the catalyst in the right amount. I tried wetsanding it with 400 and it worked out good, i guess i was just using too much grit, and it needs to be wet sanded. Thats good tho, itll save me a few steps.

  7. #37
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    I was reading on the net and some people said I dont need a sealer over the Ultimate 2k....True story or no? Also...a buddy told me I can thin the ultimate 2k (which is urethane) with a laquer thinner. The can of ultimate 2k says that laquer thinner can be used for cleanup...would that give it the same properties as a reducer? The guy at the body shop place said I couldnt do it, but my other buddy said I could...whats the verdict?
    Last edited by SlimJimmy; 03-15-2006 at 09:11 PM.

  8. #38
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    Also...for this paintjob http://photobucket.com/albums/y24/Sl...rrent=idea.jpg
    I need some help with order of colors to lay.

    From what Ive read I have two options.
    1) mask the graphics using the 'back-mask' method and spray the white and silver JUST where they appear on the picture
    2) Spray a base of white and silver, and spray the blue and black overtop masking out the areas I want to stay white and silver.

    Which would you guys reccomend? Also, if I go with number two, will I have to spray the entire top half white and bottom half silver, or can I just spray a portion. I only ask because when I spray the black and blue over top im just wondering if I spray only a portion if that will show through the paint?

  9. #39
    Registered User 94blz327's Avatar
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    When it comes to mixing the paints, primers etc, always follow label directions. Just because someone may have tried mixing in a laquer thinner and it worked for them does not mean it will work for you. They got lucky... Imagine, you finally get the paint applied, looks good, a week later it peels off because of chemical reaction. Don't take the chance. Redoing all that work really sucks.

    Laquer thinner has been used as a cleaning agent for years. Most people use a solvent type gun cleaner now. MEK is one type but that stuff is kinda bad for you.

    I like the paint scheme you drew. Should look nice when finished.

  10. #40
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    Okay, I have some questions...When I paint my truck (see render below), can I just spray a little bit of silver and white on the sections where the color will be, then mask over them and spray the rest of the colors, or will I have to spray the whole top half white and bottom half silver? I guess what im asking is if i only spray a patch of silver, will it look fucked up under the black, as well as a small patch of white, will it look fucked up under the blue or will it be not seen?


  11. #41
    Registered User 94blz327's Avatar
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    If I were doing this one, first off, I would go with base/clear instead of enamel. Start with the blue, then mask off the top of the truck. Then I would apply the black to the bottom. After that cures mask off the areas you don't want silver. Prep the areas not masked and shoot the silver, shading, and blue tint. For the white stripe, you would probably need to remask the top and bottom areas to expose just the white stripe area. Shoot that, then de-mask and you should be ready to shoot the clear coat.

    The nice thing about the base/clear paint process is that you can usually apply tape to the base after about 20-30 minutes. That amounts to a big time savings versus the enamel paints.


    When applying the blue, bring it down into the doors a bit, then cover it back up with the black later. What I am trying to get at is you dont want hard paint lines where your colors change. Try to minimize this by overlapping where you can. When the clear is applied, it will cover the lines and feel smooth when you are finished.

    There are other ways to mask and shoot this scheme, this is just the way I would do it.

  12. #42
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    So the white and silver will be opaque enough to show up if sprayed over the darker colors like black and blue?

  13. #43
    Registered User 94blz327's Avatar
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    It all depends on the type of paint you are using. If using a solid, then yes, after enough coats, you will cover over the dark. If using a translucent type paint, then you will need to go about the application and masking differently. Translucents generally require the base color to be applied everywhere first which would show through and alter your top color.

    There are a few good custom paint books out there that detail alot of what you are trying to do. Not sure if you checked any of them out or not but they are a great resource. I also see Hot-Rod mag is doing a paint and body special over 9 months, whats important are some of the references to DVD's and books you can get to learn more.

    If you know the type of paint you want, buy a pint or so of each color, grab an old hood and try the scheme to see if it will work before investing to much time and money to find out the hard way it wont work.

  14. #44
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    Well im probobly going to just go with some stock car colors. For the blue I was thinking the blue on the new eclipses, and any old black, silver, and white. So im guessing they all be solid. This is the order I was thinking about doing it..
    Spray a patch of white around the whole vehicle. tape off the bottom edge of the white line and the top of the vehicle and spraying a silver patch. Taping off my design in the silver and spraying the black. Taping all that off and exposing the top half to paint the blue. Ill make some photoshops of the order I was thinking and you can tell me if itll work or not.

  15. #45
    . SlimJimmy's Avatar
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    And then lastly airbrush the shadows....Will this order work properly? All im worried about is the excess white showing through the blue?

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